Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: goblin on December 07, 2012, 01:36 pm
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Well, boys and girls, as if you thought he wouldn't, the fucking drug warrior in chief is filing legal action to stop Colorado and Washignton from obeying the will of the people and stopping them from enjoying having marijuana legally in those two states.
I said it before and I'll say it again: there is no difference who's in charge in this country, the goddamn fuckers will always behave like this, and the people have absolutely no influence AT ALL on what happens here. Some democracy this is!
goblin
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Well, boys and girls, as if you thought he wouldn't, the fucking drug warrior in chief is filing legal action to stop Colorado and Washignton from obeying the will of the people and stopping them from enjoying having marijuana legally in those two states.
I said it before and I'll say it again: there is no difference who's in charge in this country, the goddamn fuckers will always behave like this, and the people have absolutely no influence AT ALL on what happens here. Some democracy this is!
goblin
What a fucking motherfucker! >:(
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Umm, we may see an assassination for the first time in decades.
X)
nomad
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Umm, we may see an assassination for the first time in decades.
X)
nomad
lets all hope so ;my fingers are crossed
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do you have a source for this?
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Umm, we may see an assassination for the first time in decades.
X)
nomad
That thought crossed my mind too :D
do you have a source for this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/us/marijuana-initiatives-in-2-states-set-federal-officials-scrambling.html
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Copied from the NYT article:
"One option is for federal prosecutors to bring some cases against low-level marijuana users of the sort they until now have rarely bothered with, waiting for a defendant to make a motion to dismiss the case because the drug is now legal in that state. The department could then obtain a court ruling that federal law trumps the state one."
^ This pisses me off to NO END - fucking bureaucrats.
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ugh!
someone was telling me about CO and WA
trying to make it to where Federal Law didn't mean anything.
tried to tell them that is not possible but they insisted!
fuck the state!
/thumbs
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Copied from the NYT article:
"One option is for federal prosecutors to bring some cases against low-level marijuana users of the sort they until now have rarely bothered with, waiting for a defendant to make a motion to dismiss the case because the drug is now legal in that state. The department could then obtain a court ruling that federal law trumps the state one."
^ This pisses me off to NO END - fucking bureaucrats.
EDIT: Still pissed. Sure. Let's just clog up the court system with pot heads instead of raking in $500,000,000.00 in tax revenue for individual states. Fucking imbecilic feds!!!!
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do you have a source for this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/us/marijuana-initiatives-in-2-states-set-federal-officials-scrambling.html
Thanks, Ballzinator, for getting that link so fast.
On another note, it's un-believable the contempt that government, at all levels, has for the common people in this country.
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One last thing, those who are mentioning (and some liking it) assasination: all I can say is, what possible good do you think that would do, other than elevating this lousy fucker to the adulation level of a JFK? Getting rid of individuals would not do a damn thing, it's the system that's rotten here. And don't for a moment think I adore JFK; that man had a lot of problems, there's absolutely no evidence that I see that he would have done things differently vis a vis Vietnam for instance.
Just as there's no evidence that Al Gore would have reacted in a more enlightened way after 9/11 if he had been 'selected' by the supreme court instead of that neanderthal Bush.
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So you guys weren't expecting a little fight from the feds? I think we all knew this was coming. It's just a matter of whether the states and their people decide to roll over or come back even harder.
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This will be a battle between those states vs The Feds. Everyone was all happy that they legalized it recreationally in those states (and yeah I'd be happy to if I was there) But everyone was acting as if they're wasn't going to be any repercussion from the feds.
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So you guys weren't expecting a little fight from the feds? I think we all knew this was coming. It's just a matter of whether the states and their people decide to roll over or come back even harder.
Honestly, I thought the fight was over and that CO + WA + CA = Coalition of sorts forming in the western states. Thus, an unstoppable movement - I saw dominos.
I also thought this would encourage messed up states such as Maryland, Michigan & the District of Columbia to finally get their collective asses in gear.
It's been 13 years since DC legalized medical marijuana & dispensaries are still not open. Four dispensaries (yes, I said 4) are due to open in March 2013 but will only serve those with AIDS, cancer & glaucoma. A 13-year battle yields four dispensaries dispensing for three medical conditions. Patients are required to register with the Department of Health...
In Maryland, you can get a script for medical marijuana but there's nowhere to legally buy cannabis. Patients can be arrested for possession & go before a judge to have the case dismissed.
The fight should be over, imo. Maybe it is over. Maybe the feds are just posturing and floating trial balloons to gauge public reaction, I hope so. I hope the people of Washington state will fight back and fight back hard if the feds come knocking on the door. Would love to be in a position to advocate for legalization on a full-time basis...
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Copied from the NYT article:
"One option is for federal prosecutors to bring some cases against low-level marijuana users of the sort they until now have rarely bothered with, waiting for a defendant to make a motion to dismiss the case because the drug is now legal in that state. The department could then obtain a court ruling that federal law trumps the state one."
^ This pisses me off to NO END - fucking bureaucrats.
This is poorly written as the Feds don't need a ruling that federal law trumps state, they already know it does.but because of medical marijuana have backed off because they were instructed to deffer to State law in a memo.I forget the article that I had read this in but I am sure it can be found on clear-net . If I recall it was Obama that circulated the memo
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they are all controlled by the same pack of clowns - doesn't matter who gets elected
bush - obama no diff. is gitmo closed? are out troops still fighting useless stupid wars
they should all come home.
if u want to affect real change kill all the: bankers, lawyers, corperate board members and ceo's.
start fresh and never allow a lawyer to run for public office or govt. job again. not even dog catcher!
tax all the new ones that take their place at 95% so they dont have enough money to get into any more
trouble. one other thing - fuck the federal reserve! why the hell is a private corporation - bank
allowed to print our own money and charge us interest on it? Fucking blood sucking leaches!
just my 2 coins;
Christy
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won't need a ruling that federal law trumps state, they already know it does.but because of medical marijuana have backed off because they were instructed to deffer to State law in a memo.I forget the article that I had read this in but I am sure it can be found on clear-net . If I recall it was Obama that circulated the memo
Yeah but how old is that memo? The first two years (actually more like 18 months) of his term the feds totally backed off busting dispensaries. Then for whatever reasons, the establishment got to him, power corrupts, or whatever they started cracking down again in May of '10 and putting guys out of business in Cali. That seemed to spook everyone in else and they all shut down. This new development really pisses me off though, I thought there was a chance he might not be such a dickweed after not having to worry about re-election.
As far as fighting back, it seems the Colorado congressional delegation is way more about doing their jobs and representing the people that put them there. Here's a snippet I found:
"Unlike Washington's delegation, Colorado lawmakers have taken more decisive action to defend their state's law. Three House members from Colorado have backed a bill to prevent the federal Controlled Substances Act from pre-empting state laws. Of the 10 co-sponsors of the bill, which was introduced by Rep. Diana DeGette, D-Colo., none is from Washington."
There's only one rep from Washington that even signed the bill. Fucking bastards.
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they are all controlled by the same pack of clowns - doesn't matter who gets elected
bush - obama no diff. is gitmo closed? are out troops still fighting useless stupid wars
they should all come home.
if u want to affect real change kill all the: bankers, lawyers, corperate board members and ceo's.
start fresh and never allow a lawyer to run for public office or govt. job again. not even dog catcher!
tax all the new ones that take their place at 95% so they dont have enough money to get into any more
trouble. one other thing - fuck the federal reserve! why the hell is a private corporation - bank
allowed to print our own money and charge us interest on it? Fucking blood sucking leaches!
just my 2 coins;
Christy
Exactly, +1.
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They're plenty different on some important issues, but yeah, this isn't one of them. IIRC, Obama has always said that he does not support decrim/legalization, so this shouldn't be a huge surprise, even if I like everyone else was hoping for this to be the beginning of the end for this nonsense.
I tell you what: close Gitmo AND other black sites, refuse to commit violence in foreign states without formal declarations of war, including drone strikes, and I will personally never smoke marijuana again. And be happy for the trade. If, OTOH, the U.S. gov continues to behave like Orwell wrote a how-to guide, I reserve the right to use whatever means I have at my disposal to chill the fuck out.
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They're plenty different on some important issues, but yeah, this isn't one of them. IIRC, Obama has always said that he does not support decrim/legalization, so this shouldn't be a huge surprise, even if I like everyone else was hoping for this to be the beginning of the end for this nonsense.
I tell you what: close Gitmo AND other black sites, refuse to commit violence in foreign states without formal declarations of war, including drone strikes, and I will personally never smoke marijuana again. And be happy for the trade. If, OTOH, the U.S. gov continues to behave like Orwell wrote a how-to guide, I reserve the right to use whatever means I have at my disposal to chill the fuck out.
Haha, this! +1 ;)
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Fucking federal government.
STOP TRYING TO BE EVERYONE'S PARENTS, YOU FUCKING TWATS.
It's the goddamn nanny state. They have to have the final say, they think they know what's best for us. Don't they make kids look like gladiators to ride a skateboard, or a bike? Don't they make even ten year olds have to ride in a fucking baby chair in a car if they're not big enough? And if they see you don't do that with your kids, you could even be arrested!
Don't they prohibit transfats in fast food places, and even sugar sweetened soft drinks in NY? Don't they think we people have minds of our own, to know what we want to put in our own bodies, fer chrissake? How is changing my own consciousness, something that is my own private domain, make a congressman in Washington have a heart attack, that he has to put oppressive laws in place to prohibit it? Isn't that the height of absurdity?
And don't get me started on disciplining your own kids. You try to get your child's attention by a good smack to get him to stop doing something annoying, and you can get a visit from protective services and even lose your kid?
Stop me before I go on and on and on and...
goblin
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How is it a surprise to anyone that Obama is doubling his efforts in the anti-cannabis crusade? This is the same asshole that wanted to say legalization and regulation was a "legitimate topic for discussion" when he ran for office the first time. Then spent the first year and a half of his first term telling the DOJ to not use federal resources to prosecute MMJ patients and providers that complied with state law. We saw how long that lasted before the DOJ went apeshit on the California industry. Now when the topic comes up in debates, he laughs if off and says shit like "I don't know what this says about the country's priorities". If only that motherfucker had gotten busted during his "Choom Gang" days. He'd be lucky to even have gotten his old job as a community organizer. He's the luckiest minority in the world and a hypocrite who now wants others to suffer the consequences he should've faced as a teen. I really thought him keeping quiet on it all election season was a good indicator he at least would respect Washington and Colorado and let them serve as a model for legalization/regulation in other states that decide to eventually vote on and try to implement the issue. How he went his whole first time without getting impeached is beyond me, considering he added the most debt of any president during his first term. He's just one of many people who continue to fight on the losing side of prohibition. When you look at the big picture though, annual drug sales in the U.S. clock in at around $60 billion. Of that $60 billion, the DEA's effectiveness at stopping importation, manufacturing, and distribution is less than 1%. With an annual budget of 2.5 billion, it costs the DEA far more to operate compared to how much of the monetary impact they have on the drug trade. Until them and other government agencies that exist simply to employ people and hemorrhage money get the ax and Ben Bernanke gets fired and the Federal Reserve is finally brought under control all this bullshit will just keep continuing.
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You know what? After reading that NY times article I think the OP and others here (me included before I read it) are being overly alarmist. That article makes clear that there are internal debates going on right now about how best to respond but no course of action had been decided yet. On one side he's being lobbied by law enforcement agents to make a statement by taking a strong response to prevent the slippery slope of states passing their own laws that flout federal laws. But here's the money quote:
Several cautioned that the issue had raised complex legal and policy considerations — including enforcement priorities, litigation strategy and the impact of international antidrug treaties — that remain unresolved, and that no decision was imminent.
Sure the article brings up potential federal strategies for enforcing the law at the state level, but those strategies were immediately shot down using common sense by the texas prof at the end.
It could be that he does decide to crack down but if he does I really don't see it happening anytime soon. Why? It will fragment his base at a time when he needs his support strongly unified behind him ... that is if he hopes to get anything through congress and actually accomplish something in his 2nd term. He's too smart a politician and moderate to do something as suicidal as splitting his coalition at the moment he's trying to face down republicans.
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One last thing, those who are mentioning (and some liking it) assasination: all I can say is, what possible good do you think that would do, other than elevating this lousy fucker to the adulation level of a JFK? Getting rid of individuals would not do a damn thing, it's the system that's rotten here.
Agreed, mass executions it is.
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They feds haven't been able to stop the MMJ movement, I don't think they're going to be able to stop this no matter what kind of BS they pull. At least that's what I hope.
Say the feds manage to somehow intimidate and threaten enough to keep anyone from actually legally selling cannabis like the CO & WA laws provide for, it's still going to be legal to possess up to an ounce per the states' laws, so all they'll have accomplished then is keeping profits away from legit businesses and robbing the states of their tax revenue - which would probably provoke a legal battle because once CO & WA figure in MJ tax & fee revenues in their budgets & projections they're not going to want to give that up money stream up without a big legal fight or some sort of showdown. They'd probably just say wtf are you fed assholees going to do, invade Colorado & Washington? Isn't this the sort of situation the federal government was in near the end of alcohol prohibition with states just saying fuck it its legal here and the feds couldn't really do a damn thing besides make noise, play bully and make a few examples, then eventually cave?
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Isn't this the sort of situation the federal government was in near the end of alcohol prohibition with states just saying fuck it its legal here and the feds couldn't really do a damn thing besides make noise, play bully and make a few examples, then eventually cave?
Yeah but that's a little different because recreational alcohol use had long been a cultural staple enjoyed by many Americans prior to prohibition and among the waves of foreign immigrants flooding into the country for work. What gives laws legitimacy or illegitimacy is popular support. Washington and Colorado are like holes in the dike. There are at least 4 more states that will vote on a referendum next year on legalizing for recreational use. If the feds want to nip this thing in the bud, then they'll need to go after Washington and Colorado THIS YEAR before the potential floodgates open and make it inevitable while the rest of the country gets on board.
That presents a dilemma since Obama's going to have his arms tied from making the sort of move this year that would fracture his base. If he shows better judgement on this issue than I've seen any reason to expect so far, then he'll recognize the inevitability and not want to be on the wrong side of history by trying to prevent it from happening. This is one issue he has the power to change on his own without cooperation from congress since he can just tell the FDA to conduct an impartial review of MJ's medical properties. The facts would demand it be reclassified as a more appropriate class II drug. I hope he's got some advisers around him willing to make a persuasive case for going this route.
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I think the feds will lose. Possession is a state-level law exclusively. You can't say possession is a federal law because then there would have to be mandatory sentencing guidelines for possession. He could argue that trafficking falls under federal jurisdiction, but I think then that would only work if the trafficking was inter-state.
I'm Canadian, so my opinion probably means very little, but that's my "legal" view of the matter.
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I think the feds will lose. Possession is a state-level law exclusively. You can't say possession is a federal law because then there would have to be mandatory sentencing guidelines for possession. He could argue that trafficking falls under federal jurisdiction, but I think then that would only work if the trafficking was inter-state.
I'm Canadian, so my opinion probably means very little, but that's my "legal" view of the matter.
That's actually not accurate so your caveat is noted. ;) There are mandatory sentencing guidelines for possession at the federal level. Possession of any amount is punishable by up to a year in jail and a fine of $1,000 on the first offense. The second offense carries a 15-day mandatory sentence, and can be extended for as long as two years in prison. Any possession after that gets a 90-day to three year prison term, and a $5,000 fine. Distribution of a small amount of marijuana for no money is usually treated as simple possession.
When federal and state law come in conflict in a prosecution, federal trumps state. Traditionally have left enforcement of possession up to the states due to the sheer costs involved with federal agents processing people through federal court for holding small amounts makes it unfeasible. But to make a point they do take down dispensaries from time to time and fully prosecute under the federal level. They've put some dispensary owners in Cali away for a long time that were not involved in interstate trafficking.
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fk legalization.
Keep it illegal.
We need to mitigate consumption.
I dont think dropping the price of MJ drasstically is necc. a good idea and legalization would almost certainly do that.
Unless it is taxed heavily to deal with the social costs, i am against it.
I smoke a few times a week sometimes more, and its not like anyone that wants it can't get it. I think making people keep it behind closed doors is a good idea, generally.
It's not good for your lungs either.
For me it's great for anxiety, depression, appetite, sleep, music, focus.
But I don't really want it legal. Wierd huh?
I'm all for libertarian politics but that shit only works in theory, this is the real world, and we can't have entire states buying it at fucking gas stations. (figuratively)
If we legalize pot we should consider legalizing other drugs as well because fundamentally it's not much different than protecting people from eating too much fast food etc. If you use anything in excess that poses a trade off it will have consequences.
So unless we want to legalize coke etc, pot stays illegal.
Just my opinion, might be kinda wierd.
I am baked.
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I hear that now the great prevaricator in chief will not, in fact, go after people in CO and WA for possesion. Much bigger fish to fry, says the cretin.
Well, if in fact this holds, so what? This does not let him off the hook, boy. Bigger fish to fry indeed; I agree, this drug thing is relatively minor shakes. There are much more important things, and fish, in the world, like killing people in great numbers, including women and children, in illegal and immoral drone trikes, like diminishing our civil liberties constantly through ever more intrusive eavesdropping (how about those black boxes that will go into all new cars soon?), still no reestablishment of habeas corpus, still no closing of Guantanamo, always more *new and improved* wars on the horizon (anyone for Syria? how 'bout Iran?).
Nothing good to come, that's the prognosis, friends.
goblin
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Nothing good to come, that's the prognosis, friends.
Hey take the good news when it comes. It's a helluva lot better than if he said "We're going to crack down and enforce federal law". This is still a battle victory for the pro-legalization side in the much larger war.
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You know what? After reading that NY times article I think the OP and others here (me included before I read it) are being overly alarmist. That article makes clear that there are internal debates going on right now about how best to respond but no course of action had been decided yet. On one side he's being lobbied by law enforcement agents to make a statement by taking a strong response to prevent the slippery slope of states passing their own laws that flout federal laws.
i see u school taught, professionally brainwashed, self righteous, know better than everyone else how to run someone elses life people
come on here wanting to spread ur misery - " equally ".
wake up man - the only debate that's going on is " how can we fuck them without them knowing that we stuck our dick in their ass!!!!!!!!!!!
and for the last part of your ridiculous argument - the fucking federal government has enumerated powers! they r only supposes to
regulate what the constitution allows them to regulate - whether or not people take drugs is not one of their powers.
Thomas Jefferson grew weed - i imagine he smoked it also as did the natives. u r so full of shit.
and if u try and pull the public safety clause out of ur hat go f urself!!!! Christy makes international fuck u sign.
u r so worried about f-ing useless politics of who wins while our rights are being eviscerated right before our very eyes
by both parties!!!!!!!! this country is run by the bankers -ceo's and corporations. wake up join hands and fight them all!
ignore what ur teachers and professors have brainwashed u with and fucking think 4 urself............................
One last thing, those who are mentioning (and some liking it) assasination: all I can say is, what possible good do you think that would do, other than elevating this lousy fucker to the adulation level of a JFK? Getting rid of individuals would not do a damn thing, it's the system that's rotten here.
Agreed, mass executions it is.
+1 kmfkewm funny
i will have to +1 tomorrow :(
I hear that now the great prevaricator in chief will not, in fact, go after people in CO and WA for possesion. Much bigger fish to fry, says the cretin.
Well, if in fact this holds, so what? This does not let him off the hook, boy. Bigger fish to fry indeed; I agree, this drug thing is relatively minor shakes. There are much more important things, and fish, in the world, like killing people in great numbers, including women and children, in illegal and immoral drone trikes, like diminishing our civil liberties constantly through ever more intrusive eavesdropping (how about those black boxes that will go into all new cars soon?), still no reestablishment of habeas corpus, still no closing of Guantanamo, always more *new and improved* wars on the horizon (anyone for Syria? how 'bout Iran?).
Nothing good to come, that's the prognosis, friends.
goblin
indeed!!!
he lies like usual - his puppet strings will move to the pulling!!
he has shut down most of the cali clubs - ohhhhhh sorry didn't u guys know about that?
nationwide news blackout?
and btw whats happening in NY and the islands?
its like nothing ever happened over here in cali - what was the rock benefit for?
i thought all of the electricity was on there? been a month? more?
the only reason i know it isnt is from my customers!!
imagine obama worse than bush in new orleans? wouldn't know it by the in the pocket news media.
and really who cares if obama is worse in responding to a disaster?
they both sucked - look out for yourselves and plan ahead! u will be better off!
fuck it - this thread bores me to my toes:P
Christy
EDIT: spelling :P
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its definitely a bigger problem that has to do with what Feds can legally and illegally enforce/regulate. My belief has been if it isn't in the Constitution they should have very little control over it.....
Federal crimes are a disaster and just create more bullshit at the state and local level.
I picked up a federal drug case not too long ago and the fuckers are still in the expungement process after 3 months of me filing it. Not to mention the incident was over 7 months ago. If my crime was at a local and state level, I could not be a felon a lot quicker.
Fuck them the system is bullshit needs lots of reform.
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DUDES!!!! chill out!!!!...first of all the Obama Administration was the ones who went up to bat for us when they were gonna start busting the dispensaries back in 08...Their ruling back then was to follow the state law...like someone mentioned above...they are DEBATING on a RESPONSE now is all that's going on.
Now if he comes back and is all like "I hate weed i'm gonna bust you guys" then yes we got fucked....but my guess is Obama is looking for some sort of response so that the more Conservative dumb-ass states don't freak out and think Jesus is gonna come down and smite us. Its a game to keep everybody happy...my guess...he says we follow the state laws that are designated...
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Obama said today he won't go after WA and CO.
http://www.nationalmemo.com/obama-wont-go-after-state-marijuana-legalization-we-have-bigger-fish-to-fry/#.UMshmfXDT8I.reddit
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@ opensky, TY sir...+1 for being on top of that... 8)
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i see u school taught, professionally brainwashed, self righteous, know better than everyone else how to run someone elses life people
come on here wanting to spread ur misery - " equally ".
wake up man - the only debate that's going on is " how can we fuck them without them knowing that we stuck our dick in their ass!!!!!!!!!!!
and for the last part of your ridiculous argument - the fucking federal government has enumerated powers! they r only supposes to
regulate what the constitution allows them to regulate - whether or not people take drugs is not one of their powers.
Thomas Jefferson grew weed - i imagine he smoked it also as did the natives. u r so full of shit.
and if u try and pull the public safety clause out of ur hat go f urself!!!! Christy makes international fuck u sign.
u r so worried about f-ing useless politics of who wins while our rights are being eviscerated right before our very eyes
by both parties!!!!!!!! this country is run by the bankers -ceo's and corporations. wake up join hands and fight them all!
ignore what ur teachers and professors have brainwashed u with and fucking think 4 urself............................
English as a second language? ???